Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I've found that the best way to stop any quests being boring is to have someone working with you on them. Even if you don't need the help, get someone to come along and RP whilst you're working. Simply helping someone through quests I'd already completed was fun, as opposed to the grind of doing them myself, because there was RP.

Form a team to do the quests, and talk about them. It means that Grinding to improve skills doesn't cut into RP time.

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Well, as for me I´ve decided not to join you in Ryzom. I have only limited time to play each week. The skill system in SEED, and the relatively small world made it possible to drop by and enjoy some good roleplay. From what I´ve seen and heard of Ryzom thats not gonna be possible for me there.

Its not that I got scared from seing that South Park episode ;-) but I simply dont have the time to play each week, that Ryzom requires to be fun...

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I see you all decided to give Ryzom a try. I came from there before starting on Seed (played WoW and Ryzom before Seed, as far as combat MMOs go). And I didn't like it enough to pay for it. I loved the community, despite it being very very low on RP. It was mature and for the most part pleasant. However, I hated the combat. I couldn't focus on being just one thing, and the grind was horrendous, by far the worst I've seen in a game so far. The quests were really bad. And the RP was, apart from a very small group of people, absent. To put it shortly, the game bored me nearly to death, only my friends in the community kept me there for a while, and not for the RP I had with them, because I hung out with non-RPers in Ryzom. All in all I preferred even WoW over Ryzom, since I liked the gameplay better and the quests were not bad at all, if a bit repetitive. The community was not as good, but you could find decent people, and on the RP servers, the level of RP was even slightly higher than that in Ryzom. By the way, not to discourage anyone from playing SoR, I did stick with it for 2 years (on and off). If you want to play an MMO right now, then I'd say choose between SoR or WoW, BUT... There is another non-combat, RP-heavy game nearing completion, due this December and so far it's going on schedule without delays. It's URU-Live (Myst online).

http://www.urulive.com/blog/
http://www.urulive.com/forums/index.php

Not everyone will have enjoyed Myst, but URU isn't much like it at all. It's an MMO, for one, and the solitary feel of the Myst games just can't be preserved in an MMO (which is what a lot of people disliked about the Myst games, I hear). I played the original, failed, URU-Live prologue (this coming URU-Live is their second attempt, after Cyan almost went... bankrupt... after the first URU Live had to close down some 4 years ago. Sound familiar? Yes. That story sounds an awful lot like Runestone's, only Cyan isn't a young company, and the Myst series was very popular, and they DID manage to find new funding, where Runestone failed, sadly. They've made that mistake too and managed to struggle back up and are going to do it right this time big_smile) and that was the best MMO I have played, alongside Seed. It was very RP-centered, even the devs did not communicate with the players OOC-ly, instead they communicated via the in-game faction of the DRC, even all the new content etc that was nearing readiness was presented IC. There were hardly any NPC's, mostly they had actors play the DRC, much like AD played the TSR and others. You won't even have to solve puzzles in the new URU Live either, not if you don't want to (in the original URU it was required to solve a puzzle section alone before joining the rest of the online community, but not in the new URU, you go straight to all the other people in game). And even in the original URU solving puzzles was not the whole of the gameplay. There was the marker-hunt, for instance. Anyway, I ramble.

So, what I wanted to say, I just hope you all come and at least give it a look once it's out. It will be available free in a limited manner much like Ryzom, though not as restrictive, I think you'll have access to more places than the free Ryzom, as a non-paying player of URU.

Well, this was of course, shameless URU Live promotion, but I just love the game so much, already, and it's not even out yet (I had that with Seed too). So I hope to see many of you there around Christmas time, when it's due to be released,

Norah

ps. oh yeah, almost forgot: I'm Liath over at the URU Live forums, just like I used to be at the Seed forums.

pps. Oh, and for those of you who want to stick with SoR, feel free to ask me about how the RP used to be, etc big_smile. I still have a ton of stories over at some Ryzom fan forums, and I remember a fair bit of history/RP, etc.

Last edited by Norah (2006-10-09 22:58:15)

-Norah/Liath-
"Do not follow! The milk is not ready, and you are not ready for the milk!"
-Psychonauts: Milkman Conspiracy area

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Strange how people have such opposite opinions about the amount and level of roleplaying in SoR. I heard from a couple of veterans there's a lot of good RP, and also Trevenni mentioned the Zoraï capital was "teeming with RP" when she got there.

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Okey, seen now four suggestions.

ATITD?
NWN2?
Second Life?
URU live?
Ultima Online? (I did add this)


I also noticed some roleplaying been little "choosy" about the games. Example if we look back to Seed.

What did make Seed so that most roleplayers did like it?

1. Interesting setup of story.
2. Good roleplaying support from GM's and game developments.
3. Nice comic looks (not really important)
4. A lot of other roleplayers.

Quoting Oluf, as it shows it very well:

All i can say is that when i played the harvester tutorials i was bored... (well, except for the one time where i got a senior guide to roleplay a bit with me!)

What did make Seed hard for non roleplayers?

1. Almost notting to do, just three option: repair, produce, doctoring
2. Roleplayers did not talk to You, if You wheren't talking right.
3. Technical quality of game client below standards.
4. A lot of bugs and lags

If You look what I have choosen there, You may disagree, but the main point is that roleplayers doesn't really care the game functions. It's all about the people community it self. So looking game isn't really looking game, but ability have intresting story and place to talk.


The real question is how many like to stay in SoR and how many do not?

Maybe we should create list of the games what would be possible and everyone can say they opinion (vote) what they like?

Last edited by Victoria (2006-10-10 06:08:58)

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

hey norah! good to hear from you smile
I am going to check out that Uru thingy!

Victoria making a list of game suggestions is a good idea, but I dont htink we should vote on what game(s) to play. People shoudl play whatever they think is fun and interresting. Which is why i also support everyone who play SoR...at least they have been lucky enough to find a game they like, unlike me! wink

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

at least they have been lucky enough to find a game they like, unlike me!

Yeah, I've had no such luck either. Well, I have, but URU's not actually out yet.

I tried Second life for a little while too, saw it was on your list here, but I have to say that that was by far the worst MMO I've ever played. Had nothing but bad experiences...

Ryzom might have changed (RP-wise) since I last popped in there, of course, but I hear about its develpoments from some old guildmates who still play sometimes, and I didn't think much had changed, apart from that Ryzom Ring thing finally getting somewhere. The things I've always liked a lot about Ryzom are the people, and the graphics. It's such a pretty game (except for those trykers tongue. You know who you are, you ugly little monkeys). I started playing Ryzom because my old MMO had just died (the first attempt at URU Live), and a lot of former neighbourhood people and Great Tree people that I knew were moving on to it. Like some of you are doing now. Back then it was still in beta and they promised it would be a very different game from what it is now. This feels so much like deja vu to me big_smile. I kept on playing it for about a year after launch, all in all, but not for a year straight, I kept leaving and coming back. Nevrax almost went bankrupt during the development of Ryzom too. That's partly why it turned out so different from what they once said, they hired someone, blah blah, and then they suddenly introduced PvP while they'd always said they wouldn't... To attract more people most likely.

I hope those of you who go to check out URU, like what they see. I can recommend some good fan trailers/movies about old Live, so you can see what it used to be like. But if you're a forum-reading kind of person you'll probably find them yourself soon enough.

I also noticed some roleplaying been little "choosy" about the games. Example if we look back to Seed.

What did make Seed so that most roleplayers did like it?

1. Interesting setup of story.
2. Good roleplaying support from GM's and game developments.
3. Nice comic looks (not really important)
4. A lot of other roleplayers.


What did make Seed hard for non roleplayers?

1. Almost notting to do, just three option: repair, produce, doctoring
2. Roleplayers did not talk to You, if You wheren't talking right.
3. Technical quality of game client below standards.
4. A lot of bugs and lags

If You look what I have choosen there, You may disagree, but the main point is that roleplayers doesn't really care the game functions. It's all about the people community it self. So looking game isn't really looking game, but ability have intresting story and place to talk.

I've always felt like story=game. I care about the gameplay and functions, but if it's not tied in with the storyline it means nothing to me, and I get bored. I want a reason for the things I do aside from getting more gold and better gear. URU and Seed were perfect in this way; everything you did in URU, was to learn more about the history and current story. The exploration, solving of puzzles, it was all connected to the story, the history, and, well, everything. In Seed, Labspace was about to collapse if we didn't repair it and clean it up. We had reasons to do things in these games. In games like SoR and WoW, I killed and killed monsters, I did quest after quest, but what did it get me? Hardly any of the quests were tied in with the storyline, and now we get to something equally important: Even if you did get a quest that revealed more about what happened in the gameworld, it meant nothing. Countless people before and after you would do the exact same quests. It was all incredibly static. Nothing changed, your influence on the gameworld and story alike, was entirely absent. While in both Seed and URU, you were actually part of it all, you influenced it all, not just someone running through it all trying to get some more gold.

You may disagree, but the main point is that roleplayers doesn't really care the game functions. It's all about the people community it self. So looking game isn't really looking game, but ability have intresting story and place to talk.

Anyway, games with just one of the two don't work for me. I need both aspects, completely intertwined, to like a game.
Just gameplay, no story, no RP? Booooorring.
Just RP/story, no gameplay? Just as bad. I'll just go read a book instead. Or make up my own story.

Heh, so yeah, I did disagree, but you did say that it was allowed big_smile.

Norah

-Norah/Liath-
"Do not follow! The milk is not ready, and you are not ready for the milk!"
-Psychonauts: Milkman Conspiracy area

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

tried Second life for a little while too, saw it was on your list here, but I have to say that that was by far the worst MMO I've ever played. Had nothing but bad experiences...

Hehe, same happen to me. Worst what I have tried so far.

Heh, so yeah, I did disagree, but you did say that it was allowed

Different opinions are allways welcome.  wink

Games where player can actually affect the game are very rare.

I think I have seen only a few so far. Seed, Ultima Online and Horizons, maybe SoR too are those games what I have seen. Ultima Online has happen permament change to world it self, done by player, so that different servers resulted different look inside the game, by how players did act in event situation. Horizons players worked togather as community for common goals. So they builded towns and opened new areas and races to play. Pushed enemies out of they lands and so on. Basicly I'm talking situation where players leave they mark in the game world it self.

Of cause it's all connected how many players are in the game.  With 50 player there is possibility controll the situations more personal ways, but with 50000 player the situation is little harder. Because many events can't anymore be so personal that they where in Seed. They are more planed events and what ever players do, can lead different results. But the results are planed by game development, not players.

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Hey everyone. I'm new. Ract found me in Ryzom and I'm happy to meet you all! smile

I'm really liking Ryzom so far, but if you're not satisfied with it you might want to check out Anarchy Online. Besides World of Warcraft I think it's the best MMO out there. It's very complicated gameplay-wise (which I enjoy), it has strong factions and even RP (though not as much as Ryzom), and also a sci-fi theme (like Seed?). However, it is also based almost entirely on leveling gameplay-wise, and unfortunately even more so than Ryzom: at least in Ryzom you can switch from magic to melee (or whatever you're weaker in) so you can have two effective levels. In Anarchy Online you have only one level, and grouping with people too low does neither of you any good.

Also you can't switch classes (like from melee to magic) on the fly. Like WoW or EQ, there are set classes that you pick at the beginning, and you stick with them forever. And the graphics are aging.

But it has a humongous, varied world that you can build cities on. I got up to level 202 in it and had a great time. I'm not trying to switch a group of good roleplayers to one of my favorite games (far be it from me to show such brazen self-interest!) but it's definitely a good time.

Oh, and also, the original game -- without any expansions -- is free now, though Shadowlands makes things easier for leveling.

Last edited by Atmus (2006-10-10 22:26:06)

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I actually tried AO on a free offer. I found the controls astoundingly tricky to manage though, and controls are a major hang-up for me. I'm still leaning towards trying it again at some point though it's going to be hard coming into a game this late. Also, it looks very dated by now.
I don't know...

http://ahnion.centralen.net/temp/signature-Seed-community-2.gif

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

For me, a game starts to become interesting when it gets some world-specific, odd humour. Like the time in Seed when Bre thought that we're going to "give someone stuff to kill another Seedling with a long spear at night". As you can guess, we just called someone a freelancer and started trying to remember why freelancers are called that. And tried to remember how Medieval was called during that.

AO... doesn't sound very interesting. And I'm not really into cyberpunk. Is there any crafting/peaceful character type of play? I'm tired of killing things since Ragnarok.

RP in MMOG's looks like this when trying to base it on in-game activities:
"Let's go <activity>!"
"Yay, <activity>!"
"<motivation>!"

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

No, there's no crafting/peaceful character class at all. =/

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I've pretty much given up on SoR now. I just can't motivate myself to play, since I wind up grinding more than anything. As such, I'm throwing my vote in for NWN or NWN2. It's fantasy, but the fact that it's not fee based, we can make our own world, and having done a social server many times before I know how good it can be RP wise.

Anyways, I think I'm going to drop out of SoR officially for now. I don't enjoy it and don't ever plan on paying for it.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/coarsesand/graffisigtransparent.png

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Yes, there seems to be a sizable minority who either do not want to play SoR, or play, but do not have their heart in it. There are also a good deal, around 10-15 + 3 or so new ones we managed to meet, that do enjoy the game. Both was to be expected of course. The important thing is to still be one community, no matter what we play. As for NWN, I think NWN2 has very good potential for us, but it will require some time and effort from the GM's (be they amongst us or among the general NWN community). Still, NWN2 I could see as a great place to RP, given the right world.

Also, URU Online, which launches this December will be highly interesting looking into, which I will of course do. So there should be alternatives to SoR coming up shortly. It would still be great to collect most or all of us in one game - it might be unrealistical after Seed, but let's see. For now, there is RP in SoR, and that means almost everything for me (it is certainly better than the alternative, which is nothing right now).

Anyway Sandling, you'd better stay around. Or else!

Last edited by Darkhawk (2006-10-11 06:09:03)

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

We'll never find a game everyone will like, I'm afraid. There's too many factors to consider. Unless there's another non-combat sci-fi cartoon game with time-based skill system, RP-friendly community, cute chimbots, and the possibility to affect the development of the world, we're out of luck.

I just don't think we should ruin this community by trying to force it to stick together. (Of course, it's easy for me to say, as I'm more or less enjoying SoR.)

That said, if a game comes up that more people like, I can be convinced to give it a try.

EDIT: However, I don't really like the idea of jumping from one game to another indefinately on the holy quest of finding the perfect game for us all.

Last edited by Kryigerof (2006-10-11 08:41:44)

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Kryigerof wrote:

We'll never find a game everyone will like, I'm afraid. There's too many factors to consider. Unless there's another non-combat sci-fi cartoon game with time-based skill system, RP-friendly community, cute chimbots, and the possibility to affect the development of the world, we're out of luck.

Well, apart from the chimbots and the skill system (the old URU had no skill system at all, and I don't think they've made any radical changes for the new URU Live) and the cartoon looks (definately not cartoony, but, it's very beautiful), the above would describe URU Live pretty well (yes, it's actually sci-fi, far more than fantasy, there is a technological/made-up scientific explanation for any magic-ish occurances, but we could go for a mix leaning heavily towards sci-fi if someone wants to be picky). tongue big_smile

Last edited by Norah (2006-10-11 08:58:17)

-Norah/Liath-
"Do not follow! The milk is not ready, and you are not ready for the milk!"
-Psychonauts: Milkman Conspiracy area

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Sounds like a nice game then. But my list was far from complete, of course. URU, for instance, (played the single player game) gives a rather artsy, surreal, dreamlike feel, which is not for everyone (could be for me).

Last edited by Kryigerof (2006-10-11 09:05:06)

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Kryigerof wrote:

Sounds like a nice game then. But my list was far from complete, of course. URU, for instance, (played the single player game) gives a rather artsy, surreal, dreamlike feel, which is not for everyone (could be for me).

Yes, but that's caused for a large part by the absence of people, when you're playing a game offline that was meant to be an MMO. I played the offline portion first, and then joined the URU Live prologue, and the difference in atmosphere was staggering. Having other people with you in those places makes a world of difference.

There won't be an absence of people in the new URU Live. Won't even be an offline portion you have to play before you can go to the online portion, you just go straight to the people. I think that they thought that was one of the reasons the game failed the first time around: people who were expecting an MMO being forced to play an (albeit very small) offline adventure game on their own first.

Last edited by Norah (2006-10-11 09:09:37)

-Norah/Liath-
"Do not follow! The milk is not ready, and you are not ready for the milk!"
-Psychonauts: Milkman Conspiracy area

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Is it still about contemporary people in a very strange land?

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Kryigerof wrote:

Is it still about contemporary people in a very strange land?

It's about contemporary people who've more or less joined an archeological excavation/restoration. The city you go to is actually on Earth. You link to ages that are not though. Anyway, the city (not a land) is abandoned, but it's no stranger than walking around, say, pompei (wow, what's is it with me and pompei that it keeps popping up?). Only more buildings have been left intact. And we know only a little bit less about this city and the people that used to live there as we know about the old Pompeians.

BUT, I hear you own the offline game URU? Then I'd strongly recommend you try Until URU (is sort of an MMO). You see, when the old URU Live died, the fans just couldn't stomach it, and they got their hands on the game whatever (all with Cyan's permission), and put the game back online as it was. So you can now go (if you own URU - ABM), to the online game almost as it was before it died, and give it a little try. To do this you need only install a patch over your game, ask for and receive an access code, and then you can play (it's free).
Keep in mind that it is NOT the old URU Live, there will not be the NPC-actors from Cyan, there will not be any new content, any new developments. It's simply the old world put back online for people to wander through.

Also, people seem to get confused over this an awful lot, so I'll mention it: Until URU is not the new URU Live!!
It's sort of like a shadow of the old URU Live, which died. The new URU Live that will be released this fall, is still in development, closed beta, at the moment.

So, if you're interested, I can provide you with the links and instructions and whatnot. I'll even join you in Until URU, have to obtain a new access code myself though, because I sort of lost my old one when we moved house and got a new computer a couple of months ago.

Hmm, it seems we've hijacked this thread, we should maybe have made a new one...

Last edited by Norah (2006-10-11 09:32:33)

-Norah/Liath-
"Do not follow! The milk is not ready, and you are not ready for the milk!"
-Psychonauts: Milkman Conspiracy area

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

No matter what we shoudl stick together as others have said all ready smile

I for example wont be playing SoR either but dont expect to see me any less! There is nothing wrong with us trying to build a great commuinity around roleplaying games, which is why that I also think its great that Atmus has signed up smile

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I've said this before, but I'll say it again. I'm prepared to try anything that a sizeable part of the community likes and doesn't disagree totally with me. To describe the extent of it, I would even play WoW, because I know that this community (when it wants to) is capable of a level of RP I have never seen before in an MMOG.

That said, I think both URU Live and NWN2 are strong possibilities. I'm not really very fond of the D&D fantasy setting, but I also know how versatile NWN was in terms of creating words. However it should be said that it's likely to be a while (two to four months) after the launch of NWN2 until the amount of custom content really becomes versatile enough to enable us to make a truly interesting persistent world. Also, I believe NWN2 will be seriously taxing for people's hardware. I won't have any trouble running it, but I've quite a few heard people mention having older hardware.
That said, I have a few old ideas for game world concepts that could become interesting foundations for a persistent server. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. wink I also have some experience with the Aurora toolset and how NWN works, though I'm really more of a hack and designer than a scripter. (I really hope they haven't treated variables the same way in the parser this time.)

Oh, and since the scope of this thread has gone outside SoR, I move that it is moved to the Games Discussion category. smile

Last edited by Ahnion (2006-10-11 14:54:18)

http://ahnion.centralen.net/temp/signature-Seed-community-2.gif

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Honestly in my opinion you have been scratching the surface:

some games in development or already out that go out of the things you see around

Roma Victor

Trials of Ascension

Darkfall

Falen Earth

Im not too informed about NWN2. But I know its D&D and it sucks in pen&paper so why wouldnt it suck online? i've said it before its about the community, and I do believe we can find a place we all feel confortable. URU doesnt seem like something that would appeal to me. But I can give it a look like I've done with every MMO. WoW is just too bad to be believed. Anything that forces me to combat, forces me to any action whatsoever is a dead game to me. That takes levels and all types of grinding out of the picture. if I cant acomplish something not because I cant crack it with my intelect but instead have to forcefully do any type of task in order for my character to do it I find it boring...

I know that takes out of the picture every single MMo out there

It also gives the answer why I play City of Heroes. If there's nothing out there any good you better play the one that is more fun in doing what they all do. Hack things to bits

UO is a pearl. It is probably the best ever. I havent played it for long because I didnt meat anyone worth playing with (no RPers), but I know graphics are an issue to a lot of people (tough theres the whisper that when the game makes 10 years next year it will have a super graphical modification).

Honestly, Ryzom really smells of grinding and its not about what RP there is (since some say theresa  lot and some say theres none). I had a load of Rp in WoW. But the game forced me into instances. Forced to get better armour and forced me to kill Hundreds of Defias just to get stupid bandanas after stupid bandanas.

I dont want to kill animals, I dont want to do anything, unless I feel like it. Unless my character feels like it. I have nothing against combat, just give me a reason to fight...a good reason instead of just the "Hunt" story and the "theres an invasion" story.

Second life is probably the worst idea ever...and its abominable. I've tried it for 5 minutes and uninstalled it.



To me there was only a game ever that gave you freedom to do everything you wanted
That game changed to be just like the rest
Only in Star Wars Galaxies you could live a life where you were forced to nothing. One day I entertained in the cantina, the other I bought clothes, the next I smuggled weapons and after that I fought in space. I would deliver rebel plans right after I've crafted those new boots...thats freedom, and now its gone.

You cant fightthe big corporations. they want money and people like us dont generate money. So our games are all dying or dead. But as long as we're together...every game can be fun...

I talked too much

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

I agree with the comments that we should not force ourselves into the same game. Let's stay in touch and no doubt several of us will end up in the same games from time to time. Eventually we'll find a place that gives us the freedom to RP like we want to. And then we can rejoin once more in virtuality.

smile

Esme

Re: The future in SoR and impressions of the game

Camolas wrote:

Im not too informed about NWN2. But I know its D&D and it sucks in pen&paper so why wouldnt it suck online?

Without wanting to insult you I would say that, yes, you are uninformed about NWN2. To begin with, it's not an MMOG. It's a CRPG with network play and the capacity to run persistent servers - essentially small MMOGs. Second, NWN and most likely NWN2 suck in themselves, when it comes to the game campaigns. That's not why they're interesting. What's interesting is the way they can be modified and added upon. Essentially, in NWN/2 we can/will be able to design our own game world. Not everything can be done in scripting, but a lot can be added, as the NWN community has proved beyond all doubt. If you wonder how much can be done, have a look at http://nwvault.ign.com/ but be warned. If you thought there were a lot of mods for The Sims, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

The setting will most likely have to be fantasy of some sort (unless we have some talented and arduous modellers in the gang who can make all-new tilesets) but it doesn't have to be standard Sword & Sourcery bullshit along the lines of what D&D usually represents. We could make our own world. It would take time though, and as I said before, it will be a while before there is enough custom content to design a really interesting game world.

Still, the possibilities are most definitely strong.

http://ahnion.centralen.net/temp/signature-Seed-community-2.gif