"but by nature a lot of RPers seem to have social issues" ...well...i disagree with this statement

Anyway. What is needed is not only emotes ect imo. What is needed is also an ongoing storyline that the players are able to alter and change depending on what each person does. There should be no static quests at all, all the storylines should come from GMs/a story department. Of couse that is utopi... In "rl" (funny term to use when speaking of MMOs hehe) semi-static quests could work I think...as long as it still feels like the players got an impact on the world and story.
The game would also have to support more background stories then seed did...we were all speedgrown and bam! Out in the world. Of couse there you had to focus your char on his/hers current goals which help moved the story onwards instead of everyone standing around talking about their childhood.

As for the setting itself. That is not an easy question. Most settings would work but i would personally perfere either : sci-fi or semi future (ie in 50-80 years).... Mostly becuase these settings have not been explored so much in computer games yet i guess.

I have yet to try the perfect roleplaying mmo...but seed was pretty darn close!

Everyone's already made very good points.
Emotes may not be essential, but they sure make the world seem more alive for me:
When your char actually moves around according to the stated text action. You don't have that, for one, with * * emotes.

Something I'd still really like to see in an MMO: interactive emotes. Might be a little difficult, but I don't think it's impossible.
For example, you give something to someone, and they actually take it from your hand. Or: an interactive hug or kiss emote, that actually involves two people, instead of two chars standing still, or one of the chars making a blowing kiss hand, or something.
URU's share Relto (and other) books, is actually a kind of interactive emote. You hold out a book for someone, and then they reach out and put their hand on it, and something happens.
Now, it -is- a little slow, because it involves two people needing to do something (1. you click share book, stand near your target, and click them. 2. You wait, sometimes long, because: the target needs to click the book that will, by your action, appear on his screen.
When both parties have fulfilled what's needed, you see your chars enacting the emote-thing), but, it's incredibly neat, to be able to do something like that with two people, and actually see both your chars interacting like that.
It makes the world seem more real and alive.

Last edited by Norah (2006-11-29 20:33:56)

I've been pretty interested in MMORPGs (As opposed to other kinds of MMOGs) for quite a while, and can make out several things:

1. Whatever there is in the game, it must be explained by the gameworld. Private/guild channels? Resurrection? Explain why it's possible and how it works, doh. And if you can't find an explanation for something, well, ditch it!
2. Character customizability. And I'm not talking just faces, hats and suits (Which are fine, too), but also their game-mechanic stuff. Like not being a level 20 scientist, but having vast experiences in biochemistry, but being nearly unable to operate a simple computer. Think creative!
3. A plot with some problems characters are supposed to solve. Even if it's not a player-driven plot, it does create opportunities for roleplaying.
4. No pre-dominant feature. I. e. fighting in most modern MMO's, where whatever you do, you do to enchance your or someone else's fighting ability.
5. Political gameplay, where not every problem is solved by die-rolls. The simplest way, even in fight-based games is to make some resources only available to certain people. If the people don't like you - no good stuff for you!
6. Emotes that multiple characters share. It isn't much, but it's a great cosmetic feature.
7. A /me feature, G-ddamnit! And emote parser. I.e. if I use a ":)" smile, I want to see a "Wheri smiles" text line instead of just ":)".

That's pretty much it. If the game has all of the above, it's up to the GM's and the community to make it a roleplaying one and keep it that way.

As for the "issues", well... you can say I have some issues. But they don't prohibit me from using voice-chat. It's more like I prefer to think on my character's words or actions.

>>voice chat would ruin imission imo... People would easily be able to hear my rather weird sounding english... what if i wanted to play a person with no language problems at all?
If it doesn't go international, it's alright. The bad part is background noise that tends to be involved in voice-chatting, and huge amounts of traffic it generates. I doubt my channel can handle it now.

>>Anyway, the point with having explanations for everything in-game is actually pretty good
Seed's the best game in that aspect so far. Even if not explained by the developers at the start, we players figured it out and agreed on a single way of working for things. And everyone coming to the game would see that way and roleplay accordingly. But that's really a common effort by the game's authors and players.
Thinking of this all makes me want to add another point that I thought is really obvious, but oh well. The game/server should have an open relationship between players and authors, so no things contradicting the players' decisions are made by the authors.

I'd add, more wits-checks versus skill checks. I.e, to "win" something, you must, for example, convince more people or find a way to, not just repeatedly succeed on die rolls. Plain and obvious.

I dislike voicechat. for a lot of reasons, but today in URU proved it to me again: it just doesn't sound good. It really just doesn't sound like a person talking. For one, the sound doesn't sound like it's coming from their avatar. In a big group like today, I couldn't make out who was speaking. There's interference. I hear mic noises, background noises, whatnot.
I wouldn't want to speak, even if I used voicechat, I'd only listen.
The whole thing just sounds... wrong. If it really did sound anything like people talking to eachother, that might not be so bad, but it doesn't. Bunch of disembodied voices coming from no particular direction, background noises, interference, some people's voices being overly loud, others being almost too soft to make out....
It didn't feel more immersive at all.
And if you missed something someone said, which was all too easy, you couldn't scroll back up and reread it.
Also: if enough people are speaking at the same time, I cannot hear them at all. I can't filter out sounds properly.

I'll add another thing I think is missing in most MMO's of now: a room/scene camera! Now you're mostly limited to looking from behind your character's back, from a point more-or-less in his head (The character himself is invisible in this case) or from his front (The only way to see his face, actually).
What I'd seriously like to see is a free camera to take a spot from where I can get a comfortable view of all the characters' faces. Also a decent first-person view where I can control the look direction without turning (Only turning the head) and actually see my character's legs. And if he's wearing a helmet, understand why it's pretty hard for fighters.

It seems somewhat strange to me, actually, that this feature is still missing in MMO's. You can see the cockpit of whatever you're piloting in simulators, after all!

Last edited by Wheri (2006-12-11 02:22:38)

Lots of good thoughts here.

But how about going a little deeper than storylines and emotes? Do you believe the contemporary basic concept of an MMORPG is the perfect one for roleplaying? I'm talking about such basic things as walking around in a 3D world that represents a continuous part of the game world, performing predefined actions such as fighting and crafting. How about NPCs and quest structures? Social structures? Are character skill development or random die rolls necessary? Cosmetic features such as face morphs?

And how to keep the player base to roleplayers only, or even better, to make non-RPers pass as RPers in most situations? Two ways proved effective to achieve the first seem to be boredom (Seed's repair gameplay, quite boring if you don't fill the time gaps roleplaying, as well as lack of graphics in MUSHes etc) and frustration (Narfell's permadeath on low levels). Any more, hm, positive ways?

Keep the thoughts coming.

I also quite like little useless RP props that your character can wear/carry or sit on, for instance.

There are benches in Eder Kemo in URU, that are interactive so that you can sit on them if you click them.
Same in WoW: tables and chairs in inns that you could go and sit at. WoW, though not exactly RP heaven, got a lot of things right in the props and clothing department.

As for a quest structure for fighting or crafting? I don't think you really need any of that stuff. Not as we usually see it, anyway.
In URU, an NPC would just request you to do something. There was no quest log, no nothing. You could just... go do it. Or not. Much more like RL. Someone asks you to do something, you don't have any kind of log, it's not like 'bring me x amount of this' or 'kill  and y for me' and then you get 'this set reward.'
Even if the quests are not repeatable, in that form they feel a bit silly.

You really don't need skill structures and economy either. That depends a bit on the game though. If there's no combat you don't need a combat system. These kinds of things, fighting, death, economy, skills, cosmetic feaures, they vary too much from game to game. I don't feel that they inherently have something to do with RP.
In Seed we had no combat system.
In URU we don't have any system, really. And no one misses them either, they're just not needed.

I like NPCs that have actors behind them, but you can do a lot with artificial NPCs too.

In my ideal MMO for RP, I'd want as many people to come check out the game as possible. But of course, I wouldn't want to be swarmed by OOCers. And I don't think perma-death or lack of graphics are the answer. You punish everyone with that, not just the targets.
I think GMs might do a good job. Not having many features in the game that are much fun to do when you're not RPing would help too.
Seed's gameplay frankly wasn't much fun if you didn't RP with people at the same time.
In URU, all that is left for you to do, if you don't follow the storyline and get involved, is solve all the puzzles and look at the ages once or twice. Not too exciting either, you can only do that once, really. Though of course, you could just use it as a chatbpx with graphics. But I doubt many would do that once they have to start paying for it.