I really believe this game is like all other games out there. I do find the skill system rather interesting, but after the change in SWGalaxies and after Seed I have only palyed one MMO and that is CoH. Voted the largest Rp community, the game is still devoid of RP content. The game is all about levelling and grinding but It has a great combat feel to it. Its the only game that has given me great enjoyable time besides Seed, after SWG changed.

in SoR the grinding is just too defined. Its just the classic leveling, and why offer you the non-combat professions if you always need combat to do anything?

That said, and knowing i havent been around too much latelly ( i still have trouble finding time to play), I'd like to say im still thinking about it. I dont know if you guys know about a lot of MMORPG's that are around there, because there's more stuff out there that are probably better than SoR. Mayvbe we should open up a thread to discuss what games we find.

I really dont know right now...

Just like you Tin I have been trough that list many times recently as well....but without finding any good games.
I guess i am hopening that NWN2 will kick ass....but I also doubt that :\

I think we should make several guilds in SoR, just as we had several rings in Seed.

And if we move anywhere I think it should be to Second Life, because it:
-has no grind
-is free with the exception of owning land
-has more different emotes and items than all other MMO's combined
-offers by far the best options for creating and customizing, even scripted objects
-has a unique atmosphere that every broad-minded individual should experience
-has a tiny client, under 50 MB, so it is easy and quick for everyone to try out

Last edited by Mir (2006-10-07 19:22:27)

I didn't notice much grinding in Ryzom so far. Basically, when you're crafting, you're constantly trying to test new combinations of components for your items. And getting dappers by selling the armor you make. As a harvester, you just keep the materials coming, look for new spots and keep track of the old ones, as well as using what you get to get some dappers by selling them directly or by crafting with them. Either way, you're being useful, at least to yourself, not just "killing 999 more monsters to get 1 point of strength to get a +3 bonus to damage when it reaches 57 (Currently 54)".

Yes, in Second Life you buy land with real money. Also, I think it costs money to bring new things you designed into the game.

Given that some of us don't grind to insanity, I don't think we're likely to have a level variety as wide as a hundred and if we do, well, are you really here for grinding monsters? There may be an issue or two when we do missions and such, but if you just relax and let your character be dynamic enough to accept that you're not teh best figher evah, you can just play it out like it is - someone is a lot better than you. It happens. In Seed we had to contend with the fact that the old Seeds could do pretty much anything any newer Seed could do and more. We made it work there.

In crafting I'm guessing we'll see a lot of specialisation, so there won't be as much "competition", and even if there is, there's no problem with having several crafters. Makes allegiances interesting. Are you going to go to your brother or his rival who happens to make better weapons?

I agree that we should start gearing our RP towards keeping the community together. I've made a couple of connections myself, though it would be a stretch to go to great lenghts to meeting them up again. But I will not leave my brother, so if he wants to meet up, I'll be there too.

I have no need to be the best fighter evah. I'd be happy to be second to a senior warrior, and don't even need to be the best in my group. The problem comes when those who were your equals, skillwise, a week ago, suddenly have several times the skills you have (I currently have level 25 in melee, and not much else at all). It just doesn't make sense to me, and when it doesn't make sense, it's difficult to roleplay. Of course, those with less time to play, could always play characters that aren't so bright and competent, and I've come up with some ways to explain my inability RP-wise - but that's also very limiting. Obviously we'll have to live with this, and I will, but that's why I'm in favor of the time-based skill systems in general - even if some people still are way better than others, at least it makes sense.

For each skill. I was talking of combined skill levels, not necessary a single skill.

Agreed that the best might be if none of us grinded at all, and I admit I've been grinding myself, so if someone plays even less than me, the same problem is there. That'd mean, of course, that we couldn't progress in the game as a group near as quickly. Which I wouldn't mind, if our ability to create our own content didn't depend on that...

EDIT: Considering the guild/guilds, one alternative still not mentioned would to join some of the existing RP guilds. That would further enlarge the network of contacts and RP, though we'd not be RPing with each other as much as we would in a guild of our own.

Last edited by Kryigerof (2006-10-08 12:49:19)

I think I may have expressed myself a bit vaguely. With grind-for-XP I mean just grinding without a basic IC reason. Obviously a forager will to some extent "grind" for materials, but there's a difference between putting in that (in-game) day's work of foraging and grinding the skill for three hours just to get up to that bonus.

This way, yes, we will advance somewhat slowly in the game, and as it seems, that won't be enough for some. There's not much we can do about that. For those people, it might not be enough to settle in an area and just play things out around it, and to some extent, I suppose we'll have to accept that while the limitations of Seed kept us together, different playstyles will separate us in a game like SoR. For those of us who have play styles that are compatible enough, this is about finding a balance that accommodates as many as possible.

For myself, I wouldn't have much issue with being a lot better or a lot worse than someone else. I play my character by ear more than a set concept. Of course, that requires that the other person (whoever that may be) doesn't have a problem with it either.

About grinding and being in teams, it might not be that crippling for us. It's true that there is a difference in skill. For some, it is quite a lot. Also, it's true that most of us like feeling we're following the others in skill.

However, there are some factors that can be made to work with this. First off, if you specialize in on field, fight, magic, crafting or harvesting, you will have a much easier time reaching a high skill level, while others who specialize in 2-4 fields will need to spend 2-4 x the time to get there.

Also, since we do RP, there are points where you need others to help you accomplish something (kill bandits, kill Arken, kill Reitzak, etc.). At that time, you need the help of someone who is somewhat skilled, or it won't work. You can't manage alone, and you can't manage only with cannonfodder (well, maybe you could, but that would go against most chars to bring along cannonfodder ). Also, I do not team with non-rp'ers to get something done. Therefore, at certain times in the missions, you need to 'wait' for others to catch up somewhat, in order for you to progress. That's made some good RP, as we have scouted the area, talked about how to do it, trained those who were not able to, and so on. The satisfaction when you then succeed is much greater.

And as for needing to speak OOC on skill levels in game, I can't see the need personally. It is of course efficient to do so, but not that much fun. Better to not know the skills of your comrade, beyond what your char himself can gauge. When RP'ing, you have to think and see yourself as the char you're playing. Would he or she be able to know someones precise skill level? No. And that's enough for me. It's all about immersion, not about doing things most efficiently. I can also imagine the RP that can arise when someone claims to be a really good warrior and then gets the party beaten up.. For instance Well, we have to see opportunities, not limitations in what we do. But anyway, this was a little besides the main point of this posting, which was about the grinding.

We'll have to accept that some chars will be further ahead than others, and use techniques to even this out as much as possible. However, those that are 'better' than others might be especially talented at what they do, or they might just be exceptionally lucky and devote a lot of time on their training (which they do). That's an explanation as to how the skill gap can grow between two who started at the same time, with the same things. I don't feel it is that important, ingame. And of course that's easy for me to say, because I have some rather nice skill levels. But I spend most of my time ingame RP'ing and not grinding, so if you really want to catch up to the most skilled chars, one day of solo-grind would go far, especially if you specialized in one field only.

Last edited by Darkhawk (2006-10-09 06:14:42)

Try the web-IRC: http://webchat.xs4all.nl/index.php
If you don't want to grind, try playing a harvester or a crafter. Finding materials and combining them into items is pretty interesting (For me, at least), and it does not require actual "grinding". As I said, you are always making yourself useful, at least getting some dappers from your actions.
I, too, dislike fighting - supporting fighters with heals is Ok though. I suppose I have the lowest fighting/magical skills in the whole gang.

95% of what Victoria just said's right.
The job of a harvester is not only about finding and collecting stuff, but also about hiding and running, somehow resembling the old good Thief. And if you're sure the area you're going to is dangerous, grab a boduguard, go in a team.

And a crafter is a lot like a merchant, not only making stuff, but selling it for a lot of dappers, and buying his materials cheap. And of course making some deals just to raise dapper along the way. See a set of armor being sold for half the price it's supposed to? Get that other half!