Unless someone comes up with an IC explanation for 2 that I can get behind, I'm in favour of 3 as well. I like the idea of actually talking things out. This, of course, assumes that everyone are as RP-focussed as some of us are and aren't going to be annoyed because they can't level effectively.

<Edit> For guilds, though, I suppose it's entirely possible that a guild has something that could explain an IC guild chat, such as magicks! or tecknologicks! so each guild could decide for themselves.</Edit>

Last edited by Ahnion (2006-10-03 14:17:52)

I don't like 2. It just doesn't feel right, and I'm not a big fan of trivial magic solutions that fundamentally change everyday life.

About 1, I see 2 legit reasons to use the channel OOC:
1) to find where the RP is
2) to chat (the same way we sometimes chatted on the TM ring channel, about game mechanics and stuff)

But of these three, number 3 is definately my favourite.

Oh yeah i really enjoyed the game when i turned off region and universer chat as well hehe

Now. I enjoy RP. Heck I am only here to RP! SoR has not impressed me enough but i did quite enjoy the RP we had last night!
However... It is also a game. Imo it might simply become to hard to organize different things if all is done via local chat and without the use of guild/team chat at all. We could of couse try to minimize the use of these but I dont think it would be wise to simply ignore them. We have to be able to enjoy the game as well.

I am for trying to go with 3) but if things becomes to complicated i dont think we should ignore option 2

I can live with your suggestion Mir, if I get to make one alteration:
There should be an IC reason before you use remote communication.
That is, if you are going to use it, make sure you have a viable reason (technological or magical) that everyone you intend to speak with are aware of and agree on.

The reason I want this is so that these channels don't just become chat sinks. What can be spoken of in the open (or in whispers if necessary) should be done so, because there's more RP that way. Also, we should avoid situations where someone asks "so howcome we can speak this way?" and everyone just goes "iunno."

Oh, and in addition, if you have, say a technological walkie-talkie kind of thing, how about RPing the fact that it's not perfect? It could have distorted sounds, hisses, humming and whatever. We did this in WoW to great effect. Magic communication, on the other hand, could be too direct and semantically confusing. People using terms that mean different things to themselves and saying too much... or assuming the other one knows things they don't by habit.

Last edited by Ahnion (2006-10-04 08:23:11)

I'd tell we do need an OOC/metagame channel. There are times you just have to ask "I need a fine Quality 40 counterweight with good sap storage, anyone got these?" or "How do I return the 'use item enchantment' action to my panel?" or the like. Searching forums or the IRC takes time and requires alt-tabbing, which is a pain for those who play in fullscreen. And when you roleplay, you have to have some coordination on what you play.

So I'd say, roleplay only in the "around" channel, and "whisper" if it's actual whispering, and keep guild and party channels for metagaming (Keeping them off most of the time).

Finding an in-game explanation for them is good too, but only if the explanation is logical and realistic enough.

I say number 2.

I am roleplaying it like I am having a Floatbed Dream. or a seed version of a holodeck.

I should have the game downloaded in a week or so.  Damn Satelite internet links.

As far as in-game excuses for number 2 go, I have the following suggestion which I came up with after considering the Mystical background of the setting:-

Atys is a living world. It has streams of life energy that flow through it, connecting the various living creatures at some level. Exploitation of this fact is common amongst Homins of a mystical bent- Magicians learn to channel the primal life energy of Atys, the "Sap" of the World-Tree through their bodies to power their spells. Harvesters can tune into the flows of the great branches of the canopy to locate resources and call thyem to the surface.

Is is too much of a stretch to accept that a form of empathy can connect the Homins of Atys?

Many Homins find that those close to them- their friends and family- will share some level of empathic bond. Thye will recieve flashes of image and feeling at times, and can learn to communicate their purpose and actions to these people. The communication has no words, it is trancendent of them. A Homin simply knows that this is happening. From an early age, people learn to shut off their bond, to avoid hearing or receiving when they do not wish to, but any who wish can send brief snatches of consciousness to those they call their own.
((Messages can be PMed to those on your friends list. The message is obviously in text form to us, but not to the characters. You might say "I'm killing some Javings in the ruins" and the character who gets the message gets a brief image of you doing this. When you say "I've respawned in the Karavan enclave" the characters who get the message feel your life-essence slowly rekindled in the direction of the enclave. So in this version, the words are OOC but the messages sent are not.))

Homins can also voluntarily lower their mental defences to listen in to the flow of thoughts and feelings around them. Normally this simply results in a flood of empathic noise that slowly erodes the Homin's mind. However, a determined Homin can sometimes glean information concerning the surrounding area's inhabitants, though the annoyance factor means few will do so on a regular basis.
((You listen in the the Realm/Universe chat channels.))

These two factors have been known long enough that many Homins have discovered ways to take advantage of them. Rituals have been devised that will allow Homins to mimic the bonds between close friends, and form their own empathic bond-groups. These rituals are conducted as a blessing for those who intend to work together, so that they will act as one. A more permanent version is enacted when a new organisation of comunity is formed, to bind the members together.
((The forming of Teams and Guilds, and the unique channels thereof.))

What do people think? I feel that it gives an excuse to use the chat channels fully whilst staying in character, and that it fits in with the Ryzom mythos. Add your comments and criticisms of course, they will be welcome.

That's certainly true- my own character is probably one of them. But this could be argued to be an innate ability rather than a leaned skill- that all other Sap-using abilities are extensions of this basic awareness.

After all, when is comes right down to it we're looking for a plausible excuse, not a solid reason.

Your explanation definitely works Tantavalist. The techie variety would be much easier to explain, as I hinted above. The bit about "world" and "area" is a bit of a stretch, (though wonderfully ironic) but it doesn't bother me because I'm not going to use them anyway. Still, I'm a little concerned with using OOC and saying it's IC because of the form of communication. If the communication is magical and telepathic/empathic, I'd much rather roleplay that. I can live with it, though.

Hm... hm... I really like the idea of limiting these "magic" messages in length, at least for those of us who are not so attuned to the sap. Not only does it make a lot of sense, it's atmospheric and it limits metagaming.

I'm not sure why, but the main problem for me is having OOC show up in the same place that I expect IC. It breaks my "flow" in the character immersion (and those of you who have met Tinai probably realise that flow is rather important to me) and jettisons my mind back into the being-myself-level. Somehow, having a separate window (like /tell or even better, IRC in another application entirely) allows me to ignore the OOC as long as I need to. I can get mightily annoyed if I'm in the middle of a roleplayed encounter and suddenly, in the same field as the roleplay text is displayed, I get "WOO I killed [boss x]" or something like that. When my character is alone, it's less of a bother, but still not wanted. Also, OOC within brackets work if it's brief and to the point, probably because the indication is clear. The strange thing here is that when I do get back to "myself" and start chatting OOC, I enjoy it, but it doesn't work while I'm IC, and so I want the separation to be distinct. I've heard others say the same, and it's often people who get rather deep into roleplaying.

Reflecting on this, I suppose I should get behind the idea of a completely separate OOC channel that I can toss into a tab of its own and ignore until I'm not as immersed, like I do with IRC. The question, however, is which one. As far as I've seen, the SoR chat system doesn't support creating new channels (a flaw, most definitely) and it's not given that we're all going to be part of the same guild. Then again, I suppose not everyone needs to be part of every OOC channel, so guild would work.

If we go for the IC chat on guild/team channels route, I strongly prefer the magical solution to the technological mobile phone like things. As far as I know, none of us possesses any other kinds of electronical or equivalent items, so it'd be really weird if everyone had their own mobile phone with them. The magical solution I could live with, and it would solve some problems, all right (most relevantly: finding out who's online and where the RP is - other kinds of organizing can be done by simply gathering in one place).

Well, it seems like we have people in favor of each of the 3 options I came up with, with a slight overweight of people preferring '2' or '3'.

The ones preferring '1' have a good argument in wanting to be able to ask meta-game questions without switching screen to IRC. This could be handled beautifully if we had an /OOC channel separately, that questions could be asked in. We thought we did not. But actually, we DO have such channels, and ingame they (officially) serve just that purpose. I am talking about the /region and /universe channels, which have this function and which can be turned off/ignored. Would it be acceptable if those who preferred '1' used these for metagaming questions and such?

If we remove metagaming questions, what might be left OOC (besides the occasional important OOC thing that could be inside (()), is social smalltalk perhaps. This does not seem to be an issue for us, and all seem to agree not to have that in our channels as such? If this is so, we have the outlines of a possible system in place.

Now, if you need to ask something OOC to one player, you can easily use /tell with (()). The same goes for /team or /guild if it is important and cannot be asked in any IC way, or to one person only via /tell.

As for the IC on the team and guild channel. This is the point of contention between '2' and '3'. However, I did test a possible solution with Wheri, and that strikes me as a workable solution to bring the two differences of opinion together. Feel free to correct me if you think otherwise, of course.

What we need the talk on /team and /guild to achieve is the following (provided the metagaming questions go elsewhere):

- To find out where the RP is, and go there.
- To be able to send somewhat descriptive messages to each other for coordinating
- To be able to call upon someone and arrange a meeting
- General talk to improve RP and the feeling of 'togetherness'

Tantavalist, being the thoughtful ex-TM'er that he is, has come up with a workable system indeed. As I said, Wheri and I tested this. This system fits in with the world (attunement through Atys, though this is more Kami than Karavan), and is vague enough to allow for misunderstandings and interesting RP to develop. On the other hand, it is also vague enough to limit at least the last point we might want to go for on the list.

Still, I think it is the best suggestion so far. And I'll suggest we put such a system to the test in /team, /guild and /tell (when it is not whispering. /tell can double both as whispering and magic communication). Here're my thoughts:

0 in Magic ability - possibility to receive communication, but not to send.

1-50 in Magic ability - limited ability to send. No thoughts, clear images, sound or smell, but emotional states and vague descriptions of where they originate: 'a rushing panic fills you, and there is a sharp pain in your side, as you get the impression of a huge, hot place far away'

51-100 in Magic ability - No thoughts, better images, some smell. 'a rushing panic fills you, and there is a sharp pain in your side, as you get the impression of looking at a hazy jungle, and a huge, flying bug in front of you. The air smells of rain.'

100-150 in Magic ability - No thoughts, but otherwise seeing, smelling, hearing and feeling (emotional and to some degree physical) what the sender experiences: 'You are in a jungle, fighting Kitin and slowly panicking. Your left side hurts from the huge wound there, and your swordarm feels heavy. You desperately wish someone would come and help you. Strangely you seem focused on the smell of the rain which is pouring down, rather than at the Kitin in front of you. Your vision starts to blur' (ok, by the time the sender finishes that description, he'd be quite dead )

151-200 in Magic ability - Possible to broadcast thoughts. 'Arrghh! I'm in the Kitin jungle, past the tunnel from the lake, and I'm getting beat up. Please help me!'

Well, a battle might have been a bad example to use, but I guess you can see where I am going with this. What do you think? It would of course take accept and some discipline for us to pull off this system. It might not even be the best system, but it is a system, and it has its benefits I believe. Of course, we can test it for now, on the basic stages, or you can come up with modifications to my quick fleshing out of this.

Last edited by Darkhawk (2006-10-07 14:06:33)

Hmh. I really like Darkie's suggestion, but we can't just bring it into play unless people agree to using it.

Are you folks who want an OOC channel content to /universe and /region besides the occasional bracketed OOC? As Darkhawk said, we do need to invoke this practice as soon as possible to get the habit in. The later we set it, the more limiting it will feel.

In answer to Wheri: Hmm... well, the issue here is limitation to a degree. If everyone just had telepathic abilities, there would be little use in talking at all. I think maybe the curve is a bit steep as Darkie presents it, but there is a need to balance the capacity out. Perhaps notching it down to 1-25, 25-50, 50-75 and 75-100 would be more manageable?