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Erm.. We are for most of us here from 2 full years 
And I must admit that I, as a long time seed Fangirl, would like above all being able to get seed IP back, but not only to make it open source (wich would be neat) but most of all to let the former RGD getting back their baby. Because to me, Seed is not only some code hidden somwhere in a safe but it's also RGD and AD work, because we played together, laughed together and cried (a lot) together.
Damn you Nuala now you are making me cry again :cry:
Awww Miho, dont cry.
*hugs Miho*
*prays that he wears pants today*
I'm doubtful as to what could be made with the rights, but it would be great if you got them back Kroll. Not that we dare hope for a continuation of Seed, it was probably something that had its time, and although you'd ruin our lives (the good way), if it was ever reestablished, I personally at most hope to be able to host one server privately, and maybe tailor some intower RP from that. Open Source, several people developing their versions of what they think Seed is or could be could be interesting, though I don't believe that much would come from it (as you say, we're teeny tiny 
).
But as Nuala says, it would feel great if you got your rights to the game back. I really hope you do. Some of us would donate towards that and getting the chance to have a private server up. But again, we're not that many.
For me, Seed is one of my greatest, most atmospheric RP experiences, certainly the best online RP experience I've had. But it's gone, things have their time and nothing lasts forever. If it comes back in some form, I'll be intrigued and interested, but wouldn't dare to even hope we could reach the same level we had going, when we all ended up in tears at its closing.
Good times, good memories
It would be nice if some company was no longer sitting on the rights (actually what I'm really interested in is a return of Seed as it was, or something close to that: non-static world for RPers). However (not to be insulting), I won't exactly be bouncing up and down on the edge of my seat waiting for this.
URU had something like this happen (and had many more fans left over), and all that came of it was Until URU, which I found completely uninteresting.
I'd probably not be interested in a lot of things fans would make of Seed.
If we could host a server, the Tower would be unchanging. If it's not unchanging, do I want to see the changes? What other people besides us would make of the game, I'm not sure I want to see.
Most of us don't have much time to spend on the game now if it were to happen. I can imagine it might end up like our NWN project...
A lot of things are ifs and would be nice's. Let's see what happens. Nothing might happen at all...
Erm.. We are for most of us here from 2 full years
And I must admit that I, as a long time seed Fangirl, would like above all being able to get seed IP back, but not only to make it open source (wich would be neat) but most of all to let the former RGD getting back their baby. Because to me, Seed is not only some code hidden somwhere in a safe but it's also RGD and AD work, because we played together, laughed together and cried (a lot) together.
Yes but this is impossible. Same people might also be involved in the open-source project but as we saw, Seed will not feed developers mouths. So it needs to be made on volunteer base. Seed will never be what it was when it was commercial product, but it can at least become something close, (or at least something as in the moment we have nothing runnin', we are just feeling sorry for ourselves but anyway, until the franchise is not common we cannot do anything that is Seed. We are few but passionate.
(or at least something as in the moment we have nothing runnin', we are just feeling sorry for ourselves
We have StSC running and I think we never felt sorry for ourselves 
Indeed, 'we' might be over-used a little here 
I am sorry. But it gives such impression from the previous posts. Excuse me.
Anyway, i will keep an eye of the developments here. If we get to a point where something must be codded I am happy to help with all I can.
Last edited by Zammy (2008-07-10 13:51:50)
Yes but this is impossible. Same people might also be involved in the open-source project but as we saw, Seed will not feed developers mouths. So it needs to be made on volunteer base. Seed will never be what it was when it was commercial product, but it can at least become something close, (or at least something as in the moment we have nothing runnin', we are just feeling sorry for ourselves
Dont misudersand me, I know what Open source is and I played Seed enough to know what the source code worth. Making it open source would imply recoding 60 to 70% of the existing code just for debugging and making the existing works correctly and dont expect to find some comment in the code, the dev kinda forgot to put them in :mrgreen:
So, facing this huge work of course the help of a lot if coder would be needed but that's exactly why I want to give Seed back to RGD, because it's their baby. They worked on this project for years, lived for it, dreamed for it and they would know what's good for it. I'm sorry but I dont want anyone to tell "Hey guys! I added some great coding, now there's some rats in the tower and the first newcomer job is to kill 10 of them and they have to bring back their tail to a NPC, you know the NPC with a ! above the head"
(yes I bet that will speak to a lot of mmo player :sweat:)
It's no big news to say that Kroll would put it open source right away if he had it back in its hands, but my wish is that RGD dev would be the project admin, because as a Seed player I feel that a Seed without them nearby would be absolutly soul-less. Of course they (unfortunatly) wont live of it but that would break my heart to see some new developpement that would be against RGD philosophy
(By the way, you should have noticed that english is not my native language, so sorry if some of my sentences are a little... well... :oops: )
I use the word "open" in a general meaning.. The story,game play, and art might be very selective. Being open does not mean that course of development will change. It means that it will be small baby steps with a lot of iterations. There are going to be selected a few that will have general veto saying. People will contribute but it will be included only if there is general community approval. I am 100% there will be no killing of rats. (although sounds fun , hehe, *caugh* anyway) Yes. We will invite all the people back to the project to devote as much time as they can to it (if they want of course). I hope I am getting my message correct. The project would work as total(or somewhat) democracy, plus if something goes really wrong, it is open source. You can go into different branch and split the project (as long you have some community approval again.)
(Neither is mine but we are trying to cope with it )
Sorry for another edit.
The main problem I see is the art. As the art has very specific feeling in SEED, if you do not have the same people working behind it it will generally change its feeling. I am not an art guy so I just assume there will be a problem. That is in the case that we want SEED to look exactlly as it looked.
Last edited by Zammy (2008-07-10 14:12:03)
*edit* Oh, and I was on the RGD team - doing graphics - so yes, the community does have contact to the developers
:sifflote:
But I agree, without the art, Seed would not be the same. But still, our main problem is still the same that we had for the last 2 years. We need some money to buy it back and we need a lot of it.
I cant count how many times in this past two years we tried to find some solutions to bring Seed back, I think last time was 4 month ago. But luck was definitly not on our side when we tried to earn some money at Loto :mrgreen:
Yeah, 
Well as I said, we are here. And we will wait.
Uh...this is what happens when i am without internet for a few days
Well first of all welcome to the forums zammy! Hope you stick around!
On many parts i fully agree with norah. Seed simply would not be the same without a dedicated full time dev team with as much talent as the runestone guys. A bunch of fans working together via the internet would *not* be able to develop a game as seed imo.
I noticed the following comment "Such type of game will never ever have real commercial success!" - i could not disagree more with this. Try to read krolls "end of the road" statment he made when seed closed down (its around here somewhere :S ). I do belive a game as seed could have commercial success. It is simply a matter of MMO's being so complex in nature that they require a *lot* more time (and thus money) then anyone realises before its too late
Dont get me wrong - I would love to see seed back in some form, but it simply would not be the same without a dev team working on it, plus some great GM's the run the storyline.
Actually...I am wearing my seed t-shirt right now, and I still got a smile on my face whenever i put it on - but i am afraid that making seed open source just wouldnt re-create the game in the form that it was.
Well, I guess people have different opinions. I think it can be done not any worse. Actually even better because the people that play the game will make it. But different people different opinions.
I, too, think that Seed can be viable commercially. There is a niche for an RP-centric game, and it is growing.
Also, note that even without hype (I was really lucky to stumble upon it when it was in Beta, and don't recall seeing any ads), Seed did have a lot of people interested in it, but leaving during the first weeks to wait for the game to become playable.
Of course, it would require a much more GM's per player than your average MMOG to keep the RP active, and won't be able to support a big playerbase, but that would be normal for any RP-centric game.
Well, demand and supply. If there was really that much viable space for RP-centric mmorpg there would be one. I agree that, ok, such game could be kept commercially afloat but it will never reach big player base. I doubt such game can reach player base bigger than 10k people. And so that is why publishers are not so interested in such game. I guess the time for such game will come eventually.
You do not need 10k players to make a profit at all, if you have a 20 people crew or less and care more about your vision than money. So yes, there can be a market for RP games that are well-funded, well-done and well-executed. It's too bad the RGD vision to create this didn't succeed, but I still hope we'll see it some day, because I for one am not interested in MMO's if you cannot RP and have your actions affect the world. Preferably without all gamemechanics and focus on fighting and levelling. Urghh.
Anyway, I agree with Norah, Oluf and Wheri in what they say. It's just too much of a dream to hope for a Seed revival, sadly.
Last edited by Darkhawk (2008-07-11 14:52:05)
For get commercial it didn’t work, that’s why we are here, open source if any is the only way to go. A small volunteer dev team doing what they can when they can. Again I refer to my earlier suggestion of checking out a German game called Illarion.
Whilst I know this is not in the same ball park of Seed, the management system can be.
Not only that but I am sure the people that lost the money wouldn’t be to willing to sell the rights for a song and a cup of tea if it was again going to be revived as a commercial enterprise. We got to be cut throat cheap here…I wouldn’t even give them sugar in their tea cheap.
As for the game its self, art as with a few other things is a key factor, its what made the game what it was but alas IF the game was begged, borrowed or stolen and available to play you would play it. If a few people want to, have the passion and drive to make something of Seed if it can be got, why is it the majority give the feeling ‘Oh it wont be as good without the dev team, I would rather jus post about here and remember the beta days.’
I mean even if the game in its last seen beta state was ours and available to play, even if nothing new was added wouldn’t that be good, a 3d chat room if you will for RP, more or less what it was, running on someones home server that can just about cope with 20 people… hell I’d be there lagging about. The game was laggy as hell anyhow as I remember it.
Zammy, you might even be able to get the Uni to let you use their server *nudge, nudge wink, wink.*
Last edited by Wrathe (2008-07-11 16:19:17)
Actually, I thought more about 5000 as the playerbase, tops, and that'd be optimistic of me.
The big problem with an RP-centric game is a higher GM-to-player ratio. If, for example, a normal combat-centric MMOG requires a GM per every 500 subscriptions, an RP-centric one may require one per 100, or even more. The numbers are pretty much random here, I don't know the specifics.
If we start counting money and calculating a budget, I'm pretty sure we'll find that your standard 15 euro monthly susbcriptions just won't be able to keep the game going.
Those are just some semi-random thoughts, but the general idea is that it'd be, unfortunately, very tricky for an RP-centric MMOG to stay afloat on a standard economic model.
GMs can be provided by free from the community. There are just going to be MGM Masters of the game masters. (hehe) That supervise for certain rules.
That is in case you are referring to payed GMs. If not, I do not see what is the problem.
This thread evolved to 3 different threads I think Maybe we should seperate them into:
Open source RP-centric mmorpg, how and can it be?
Commercial one and its problems,
and can Seed be open-source.
Last edited by Zammy (2008-07-11 17:54:05)
Yes, I meant paid GM's. And seeing as GM's in an RP-centric game would not only see to it that the game stays cheater-less, everyone plays by the rules or at least the LA, and save players from nasty bugs, but also monitor RP quality and sometimes interfere with gameworld's reactions, as pen-and-paper GM's would, I don't really think it's possible to keep a contingent of fan-GM's without leaking a lot of valueable plot information to the playerbase, which is bad.
As for the game its self, art as with a few other things is a key factor, its what made the game what it was but alas IF the game was begged, borrowed or stolen and available to play you would play it. If a few people want to, have the passion and drive to make something of Seed if it can be got, why is it the majority give the feeling ‘Oh it wont be as good without the dev team, I would rather jus post about here and remember the beta days.’
One huge assumption there. No. I wouldn't necessarily play it just because it becomes available again.
And second: because Seed isn't our life, it was a game we liked (a lot). Why would I jump at the chance at playing a game that I am likely to not like? And it's not like anyone here said no to all of this, but we can at least take a hesitant stance and decide after we see it if it's something we'd still want to play.
And more huge assumptions that this community is only a Seed memorial, that that is all we do or post about.
I'd rather ask why is it that people come in here expecting everyone to be ravenously enthusiastic and near-desperate for Seed to come back?
I mean even if the game in its last seen beta state was ours and available to play, even if nothing new was added wouldn’t that be good, a 3d chat room if you will for RP, more or less what it was, running on someones home server that can just about cope with 20 people… hell I’d be there lagging about. The game was laggy as hell anyhow as I remember it.
No no no no no. I know what that is like, ever heard of URU? 'Until URU' was completely uninteresting for RP.
Wrathe I guess most of us got the "oh it wont be as good" attitude because seed was, for many of us, the best online game(i would personally go as far as to put it on my top 3, both online and offline) we ever played. That combined with the fact that all of us on this site no doubt noticed what a few bad rp'ers can do to a game like that. It needs to be supervised/GM'ed by someone who is getting paid (and thus can get fired if they aint doing a good job )
However you may be right that we have simply gotten used to hang around on our site and irc channel and talk about the good old days and therefore have become like a bunch of old men talking about how the young kids of today have gotten it all wrong
Even if we were able to put it up on a private server with the last online build of the game then i doubt i would play it for long. The great thing about seed was that we saw it develop in the direction the playerbase wanted it. Want to customize a chimbot? Give the devs 1-2 weeks and its in-game. Want to grow a tree? Give em a week and its there. I doubt that would be doable with only volunteer work. Part of the problem would be time, and dedicated from the people involved....but for a project such as this i doubt that would be that big of a problem. The second part of quality.... We all know how much crap can be found on the internet, no doubt the quality of a privately run seed world would drop.
Cheers
Yes, I meant paid GM's. And seeing as GM's in an RP-centric game would not only see to it that the game stays cheater-less, everyone plays by the rules or at least the LA, and save players from nasty bugs, but also monitor RP quality and sometimes interfere with gameworld's reactions, as pen-and-paper GM's would, I don't really think it's possible to keep a contingent of fan-GM's without leaking a lot of valuable plot information to the playerbase, which is bad.
You are assuming a lot here. Plus paying that many GMs is not viable. And second, people that are payed do not have that strong incentive to make good RP, passion is much stronger one. I am sure volunteers will make more exciting events than a payed crew! (As I have seen it in EVE online.) And "spilling" for plots is something that even payed GMs cannot guarantee.
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