Well, the Agency looks like good, light-hearted fun, befitting light-hearted tongue-in-cheek RP. But maybe that's a good thing, so we don't get all the serious and boring It has a refreshing premise at least.

So woo, 2 buddy codes, and no takers? Really? So Oluf, if you want..

Good analysis Trevenni, but there's one caveat.. No body cares if RP'ers begin to bitch and moan and withhhold their money.. That might be why we are more mature than other groups of players No, but we are indeed such a small, small part of any MMO, that we do not matter money-wise. However, some developers think we matter a little atmosphere wise, they like RP'ers actually taking the world they created seriously and spreading some athmosphere to others. Therefore some will do things and add content aimed at roleplayers, but it doesn't happen that often at all, and even when it is added, it is also for the benefit of others. LotRO has a music system and EVE will get avatars for instance. The latter has been a massive and continual request from especially the roleplayers of EVE (yes, they're there.. Somewhere in space in their small specks of ships, mining, heh).

However, it is always an uphill battle as a roleplayer getting things into the game that will enhance RP, and the possibility of a game actually focused at roleplayers is slimmer still. On the other hand, roleplayers also have a bad, or let us say problematic reputation amongst game developers for being arrogant, elitistic, incredibly hard to please, not worth the effort, disruptive to forums and taking extra resources to please on the RP servers. When you look at this, and the fact that financially this small group doesn't matter, you don't exactly get a lot of attention. I've seen and heard about this view towards roleplayers on some of the bigger MMO's and their RP servers. The devs have to have GM's/administrators who only dedicate themselves to player complaints about other peoples OOC behavior or their naming, or imagined slights or people being too liberal with lore in their spun tales and others asking if that is true, etc.. Catering to RP'ers is an extra workload, and many developers don't see what the return is. Some see it better than others though.

But anyway, what is really needed, is that roleplayers make a game for roleplayers. This is hard yes, because of money and the general consensus in the gaming biz that this is a fool's errand. Seed almost succeeded though, Adellion might even get released, and maybe Fallen Earth has this too. So, there ARE games on the horizon done by roleplayers for roleplayers. And as Ahnion says, things are moving and changing. It is not impossible. We will just have to be patient and continue to create our own content meanwhile.

OR play RP MUD's.. Or play 'real' RP, whether LARP or (actually better, imo, but LARP is good too for sure. More girls too ) pen and paper RP. There you have immersion, depth, the ability to change the world, real NPC's, responsive GM's, and so on.. Imagine having that in a MMO and our life would be doomed.

Trevenni, I'll PM you the code now then

The RP in LotRO is.. Hrm.. I think I want to write a big comment on it in the LotRO forums when I get time. But.. You get it here first then

We play on the only english RP server. This server nominally has some anti-OOC and naming conventions in effect, but we haven't seen any GM's yet (but plenty of crap names of course ). Also, there are channels much like in SoR or WoW, so that you can cut out the OOC channel and all others except for what your char would hear in his immediate surrounding. That's nice for immersion.

So.. How much have I RP'ed the 4 days I've played the game? Only with Dustman's char. Did we attract other RP'ers while we RP'ed? Yes, 1.5 times, for a very short while, minutes, and nothing came of it. Otherwise, it's been quiet.

Everyone is running around on their own or with someone in tow, quiet. Everyone minds their own business, goes on their own quests, and do not speak, except to sometimes ask for OOC help in a raid on the IC channel. The game is.. Quiet. Sometimes there are people doing sad and OOC stuff with emotes too, but mostly everyone you meet is running around minding their own business, and it is quiet.

How can this be? On a RP server? There are two main reasons I think.

1. Roleplayers are shy: If they don't see and hear others RP'ing, they do not dare to be the ones speaking IC to someone they do not know. On the other hand, they do not want to speak OOC either.. Which results in them running around quietly.

2. The game itself does not particularly support or encourage RP. Apart from needing people for fellowship quests (quests that would be too hard doing alone), there is no ingame reason to talk to others, gamemechanic wise.

If pointing at one part of the game that is THE game, it is the quest system. These are not optional or anything, this is where you gain your XP, your good gear and your story progression. Everything revolves around these quests, and they are well-done. You do not need others for this though (Let's say you don't need others for 70 out of 75 quests in a region), so you develop a single-player attitude where you do not stop up and initiate RP unless you see it. (which you don't, as everybody else is also thinking in this way).

3. Maybe there's a third reason for the lack of RP in LotRO, or the sluggishness with which it  seems to run. Your actions will have no consequence whatever. Ok, this is standard in MMO's unfortunately of course. The quests are not repeatable by you, but everyone has done the same quest as you, also when it doesn't make any sense at all, and the NPC's return to their initial 'need help' position once you save them, etc.

That's sadly normal. But even more so than with other games, the story in LotRO is locked/unchangeable. Players might not be able to change the story of ANY current MMO (sigh), but at least you have the feeling the story is going to progress and might surprise you, etc. In LotRO you KNOW what is going to happen overall. The fellowship isn't going to fail, and they will move exactly as in the books. Nothing is going to change that, and when they succeed (if the developers will even move it that close to the end), the game is going to end, because nothing can happen afterwards (that would violate trademarks and contracts, if Turbine suddenly decided to continue Tolkien's story.).

So that might also subconsciously be something roleplayers have in mind when they can't be bothered to RP on their own in this game.

Well.. APART from that. The RP could be pretty good, and there will be player housing too at a point. It's a standard game mechanics wise, apart from a few things that makes no difference to a RP'er, but the setting is powerful, and good RP'ers can get something out of the RP here. Also, I think a bigger group of RP'ers moving together, not just Dustman and I, could stimulate more RP and make more people RP, just as in Silan where we scooped up single RP'ers.

The game in itself is also mildly fun/interesting, though there's WAY too much combat. At least there doesn't need to be any grind at all, which is great. So it is worth trying for most of us I'd say (with a free buddy code that is ). Also, they will bring out new content all the time, every 2-3 or so months That's nice.

I liked SoR's (and Seed's of course) graphics much better, they had soul, whereas Middle-Earth seems somehow.. Too clean and boring, graphics wise.. Well, that is a very personal opinion I think. Also the RP in SoR was.. well, it's har dto compare really, since there has been none in LotRO apart from what Dustman and I have had. I think we could lure out RP'ers if we were more and made an effort though And it would be nice to always have someone to adventure with as we travelled through the lands.

So Oluf, that's my short answer to you and anyone else interested. I would say that since you have already tried the game, and looking at how you went out of EVE after your free days expired.. You will do the same with LotRO. I do not think it will hold your interest. Not that I don't want to RP with you of course I just don't think LotRO has enough for you to be satisfied when neither SoR or EVE had.

Yeah, I bought the game too, and have a buddy code to give out to whoever asks me first

Coming from a MUD stint myself, I can safely say that the right MUD's and MUSH'es have so deep and complete RP that it feels completely different trying out a MMOG again. MMOG's as a medium are simply much worse at stimulating RP than a MUD or MUSH. They on the other hand, are as close to pen and paper RP as you can get, so of course they will be the 'ultimate' RP experience possible in an online form. At least that's what I experienced. The closer a MMOG is to a MUD/pen and paper RP, the better it is. Ability to do whatever your char wants to do, ability to affect and move the storyline, real GM's who make stories around you and others, and NO OOC'ers at all. That would be wonderful in any game. MUD's/MUSH'es are where this is at. Ah, and of course Live Action or Pen and Paper RP.

As for MMOG's that provide the best tools and setting for RP.. Well. EVE doesn't provide any tools and lacks avatars, but it is a great setting to RP in for sure. SoR right now lacks RP'ers and the developers are not taking the world anywhere, nor do you have any influence over the storyline.  Roma Victor I haven't tried, but to me it looks like Adellion or Fallen Earth are the only upcoming stars on the MMOG horizon. Fallen Earth have designers who come from MUD's too. These two are hardly mainstream MMOG's, nor will they grow big. EVE however is pretty big and mainstream, which is impressive. They've come far with their vision.

I hope it's possible to RP meaningfully in EVE, create stories and so, but I am a little sceptical about that aspect, with or without avatars. However, as Mecha says, there's a lot of RP in politics, strategy, etc. in EVE. That has huge potential. And as Zhiroc says, behind all that, it's a race to gain more money so you can buy more, equip more pilots, and fight more. That is at the core of corporation and alliance gameplay in EVE. Gain skillpoints and earn ISK, to be able to earn more ISK and to fight. But then again, isn't that the formula for most if not all MMOG's? EVE is unique in that it provides what Mecha describes at least, and with RP you can make it even better. However, RP takes the second seat, or is 'tacked onto' this structure, it doesn't feel natural, integrated into the game right now. Probably because the game lacks tools. These will come with the avatars hopefully.

We feel for you Mecha.

I think that in games such as this, which are freeform and where there aren't really any rules or dices, players should have a risk of dying when they knowingly risk it. Let the GM decide, not the dice, as we don't use rules or dices for anything else, and there's no need to make it too complex.

If the GM is in doubt, he can always roll a d100 or something, but that's up to him, he can just describe what happens. And of course, people should be able to feel that a certain thing is risky, so that they're not completely surprised.

Ok, just to let everybody know, at least Quanto, Frakel, Nuala, Nuala's boyfriend, Miho and me myself and I are going to meet up in Aarhus the 4th of May at 16.51 at the trainstation (aprox.), and then go out and conquer the city and the city nightlife together. Or something else.. We'll figure something out

And we'll sleep at that city-sleep-in thing. So if anyone else want to join us on the 4th, just give us a nudge here